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SPIEGEL:
Bishop Tutu, we would like to start by congratulating you on your award... |
TUTU:
Thank you. |
|
SPIEGEL:
Your country's President, Pieter Botha, reacted to the awarding of the
Prize to you with a "no comment". Does this hurt? |
TUTU:
It is, indeed, disappointing. Foreign governments and heads of state
have congratulated me. Unfortunately my own country is unable or
unwilling to utter a conventional word such as "congratulations".
And that wouldn't even scratch the skin on their high noses. |
|
SPIEGEL:
Your own government calls you a political priest. Is it right in its accusations? |
TUTU:
I believe that a Christian has to be political, but not party political. |
|
SPIEGEL:
Newspapers call you a "revolutionary priest", are they right? |
TUTU:
The Nobel Prize Committee recognized me and the "South African
Council of Churches" (SACC) of which I am the chairman as being
part of a movement for conciliation and peace. Of course, we hope to
achieve fundamental changes. If this is revolution, then I am indeed a
revolutionary. Jesus was also a revolutionary, he wanted goodness,
justice and forgiveness. |
|
SPIEGEL:
Another South African, chieftain Albert Luthuli, leader of the
"African National Congress" (ANC) was also awarded the Nobel
Peace Prize in 1960. He was regarded as the last moderate black South
African leader when he died. The ANC went underground and has been using
armed violence in an attempt to end white rule ever since. Do you
compare yourself with him? |
TUTU:
It's true that we both wanted to change South Africa using non-violent
means. However he was a politician and I am a religious leader. |
SPIEGEL:
By speaking out you could be arrested under the Internal Security Act.
Is this something you worry about |
TUTU:
Not really. I don't think that anything I say or do is subversive. Of
course, this does not provide a guarantee, especially when you consider the actions of the government over the past few
years. But God is my shepherd. |
SPIEGEL:
The wording of the award emphasizes that all individuals and groups in
South Africa that "have gained the admiration of the world for
their efforts for human dignity, brotherhood and democracy" are
being honored alongside you and the SACC, especially for the use of
peaceful methods. How long can peaceful resistance be maintained? |
TUTU:
Not much longer. Indeed, I have asked the world for help in bringing the
South African government to the negotiating table before it is too late. |
SPIEGEL:
What can the rest of the world do to help ease tension in South Africa? |
TUTU:
The world must stop working together with all those responsible for
apartheid. |
|
SPIEGEL:
In what areas? |
TUTU:
The world's most powerful countries have often vetoed proposed UNO
action in the past. Botha was recently in Europe and met with senior
heads of state. This increased his credibility. |
|
SPIEGEL:
What's your angle on foreign investment in South Africa? |
TUTU:
Investments should only be made provided they meet set requirements, for
example: Black workers and their families must be allowed to live in
close proximity to their workplace. Trade unions have to be permitted
and investors should ensure that they reject the roaming-worker system
and the passport laws for blacks. The South African government should be
given 18 to 24 months to fulfill these requirements. |
|
SPIEGEL:
Do you believe that the conditions you describe can be achieved in the
near future? |
TUTU:
No, this would mean the abolishment of apartheid. And that would be too
good to be true. |
SPIEGEL.
There has been violent unrest with deaths and injuries in South Africa
for weeks now. It would seem that Black youths are no longer prepared to
wait for the whites to decide to share power in South Africa. Has the
revolution already started? |
TUTU:
Black resistance began in 1912 with the foundation of the ANC.
Revolution does not only mean bloody war. |
SPIEGEL.
You understand your people as well as anyone: Why are children setting
fire to houses, wrecking schools and destroying bread vans? |
TUTU:
The main cause of all unrest in South Africa is apartheid, and a spark
is all that is needed. Take black education for example. The father of
apartheid, Hendrik Verwoerd, clearly stated that blacks should not be
educated above a certain level, in order that they may serve the whites.
And this is the cause of protest. |
SPIEGEL:
You recently compared South Africa to Nazi Germany. Don't you find this
a little exaggerated, despite apartheid? |
TUTU:
No, I'm talking about the non-Christian ideology of both systems. The
most important characteristic of people in South Africa is their race -
as was the case in Nazi Germany. The Germans had a final solution and
those in charge in South Africa also have a final solution. The
nationality is taken from people and discarded by transporting them into
the so-called homelands. |
SPIEGEL:
If President Botha were to say: "Let's talk about our
problems". Would you go? |
TUTU:
Yes, provided the agenda was correct. |
SPIEGEL:
And what would be the correct agenda? |
TUTU:
The end of apartheid. |
